Ep 015 Free and Well: Devoney Kodad on Emotional and Mental Health
What are the most significant issues when it comes to mental and emotional health? How are they the same or different? When is professional therapy a good idea?
Join us for an enlightening conversation with Devoney Kodad, a therapist and therapeutic life coach, as we delve into the crucial yet often misunderstood emotional and mental health realms.
Whether you're navigating the challenging waters of adolescence (or parenting teenagers) or seeking to understand some simple steps to sort through the chaos and start feeling better, this podcast offers valuable insights as we explore the intricate balance of emotional and mental health on your holistic health journey.
Devoney shares her personal journey, professional expertise, and the significance of embracing every emotion to live a truly “Free and Well” life. Tune in for an episode that promises to enlighten, inspire, and empower you in your journey toward mental and emotional freedom.
Connect with Devoney
Devoney is a therapist, therapeutic life coach, registered yoga teacher and the host of the Free & Well Podcast. She is a dog mom and a nature lover.
She is obsessed with helping 20-somethings feel confident through psychology-backed mental & emotional wellness & holistic healthy habits!
Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/free-well-self-confidence-worth-routines-overcome-comparison/id1490918997
Website: www.freeandwell.org
Free Monday Morning Journal Prompts:
https://www.freeandwell.org/monday-morning-journal-prompts
Email: devoney@freeandwell.org
Key Tips & Takeaways
Differentiating Mental and Emotional Health: Mental health is more cognitive, focusing on thought processes, while emotional health deals with moods, feelings, and how we cope with them.
Importance of Emotional Identification in Teens & Adults: Teenagers experience emotions more intensely due to their developing brains, and naming emotions can significantly help manage them.
Cultural Misconceptions about Happiness: There's a societal misconception that we should always be happy, but it's more important to experience and understand the full range of human emotions.
Finding a Therapist: If you have questions about whether therapy could benefit you, you should try it. Also, be willing to meet with different therapists until you find one who is the best fit for you.
Practical Tips for Improving Mental and Emotional Health: Devoney suggests starting a mindfulness practice, using apps like Insight Timer or Headspace, engaging with relevant podcasts or books, and being open to learning about mental health. You can also listen to her podcast “Free and Well.”
More Resources
Show Notes
Please. note, show notes are automatically generated and therefore contain some grammatical errors.
Episode 15
015 Mental and Emotional Health with Devoney Kodad
Stephanie: Hey everyone, I am so excited today for this conversation with Devoney Kodad and we're gonna talk about a topic that applies to everyone, and that's your mental and emotional health. And I know this is something that we hear about all the time. It's a really big topic, but it's something that each and every one of us has to look at in our own lives when we're talking about our bigger health and wellness picture.
So welcome today, Devin. Thank you so much for being with us.
Devoney: Thank you so much for having me, Stephanie. I'm so excited for this conversation.
Stephanie: , so can you tell us about what you do and what led you to get into this practice and field that you're in?
Devoney: Yeah, absolutely. So I am a therapist based outta California. Well, my therapy is based in California. I currently live in Idaho, but I am a therapist. I'm a therapeutic life coach, and I also just finished up my yoga teacher training. I. Which is so exciting. And then I also run online coaching programs and run a podcast as well. And I would say that what got me into this work initially, I think like so many other people, is just having my own personal experiences of really struggling and needing that support. Um, when I was younger, my parents got divorced. It was really messy and toxic and difficult, and as I grew up, I realized how important mental health was, how important having supportive people in your life is, and I really wanted to be that for younger, younger people.
I, I worked with kids for a long time and now I work with teens and young adults, and it's just something that I'm so passionate about.
Stephanie: And the name of your podcast is Free and well, correct?
Devoney: Yes. Yeah.
Stephanie: Yeah. Can you tell us a little bit about that name and what that means for you?
Devoney: Ooh, such a good question. Honestly, I feel like God just gave me that name years ago, and if I was to imagine the meaning of it, so much of the work that I focus on is really around feeling free internally. I think that when we really focus on. Improving our mental health, our emotional health, that self-love, the confidence, all of these amazing pieces internally. There is so much freedom there, right? And the freedom that God really wants us to have that I think a lot of us have a hard time accessing because of these difficult pieces around mental health, emotional health, relationships, stress, things like that. So the freedom piece, so important. And then the wellness as well.
Stephanie: It's a really good point because that freedom, I think, deep down is what we all seek. And especially even as you're talking about the self-confidence, it's the freedom to just really be who you are, to be unlimited by, you know, so many concerns about what other people think and that can drive a lot. Of dysfunction in our life.
And when we talk about mental and emotional health, a lot of times we kind of lump those together hand in hand. And would you say it's the same thing, or are mental health and emotional health different?
Devoney: Such a great question. So for me, my understanding is that mental health is more of. Our thought
processes, how we process things, how we look at things. You know, more of that cognitive piece of, I'm thinking about this situation, this is how I'm seeing it, this is how I'm understanding it. Whereas our emotional health is more so related to. The emotions that we experience, our moods, how are we regulating? How are we coping with stress, anxiety, grief? How are we coping with these difficult, big feelings? So that's kind of how I differentiate those. Definitely very related, absolutely, but that's kind of how I differentiate those for myself.
Stephanie: And when you're working with kids or teenagers who are going through a really tumultuous time, and I can remember being a teenager and just being like, I'm just so sad. I'm so angry. I don't know why. And it seems sometimes like. You recognize that emotional piece in yourself, but you don't know A, how to control it and B, necessarily where it's coming from and, and that's a lot of times what adults will be asking kids and people those ages like, well, what's wrong with you?
Why are you feeling this way? And their response is, I don't know. So can you speak to helping people, especially in that younger age, kind of sort through those dynamics?
Devoney: Yeah. I think a really big piece to remember, especially when it comes to teenagers, is that their prefrontal cortex isn't fully developed yet, and they genuinely biologically feel emotions in a more intense way. Than we do as adults. So even just noticing that, giving that permission, and sometimes it's even just starting with what are you feeling Like That's one of my favorite questions to ask.
And it's like, I don't know, it's like a jumble. Everything is everywhere. And so even just sitting down and drawing out a little pie chart. Of what emotions are here. Pull out an emotion list. What are you feeling? And there's actually research that talks about when we name the emotions, it actually helps dissipate the emotions.
And not that we're trying to dissipate them or push them away, but showing how powerful that is for even just us to name. Oh my gosh, I'm feeling stressed, I'm feeling sad, I'm feeling some excitement. Just to name those things, I think is a great place to start. And then like I mentioned, giving permission to have those big feelings. And I would deeply encourage a mindfulness practice of some kind, which is really just learning to notice where are these feelings breathing, giving ourselves that space.
Stephanie: Yeah, having this space is so important because we live in a culture where we're constantly trying to fix every problem, right? So it's like, if you feel sad, if you feel anxious, it's like, that's bad. We wanna. Stuff it down or get rid of it as soon as possible. It's like the goal is to be always happy.
It's to be always upbeat. It's to be always positive, but that's not really realistic. Don't you think
Devoney: 100%. I've actually been feeling that a lot in my own personal journey lately, just being so open to I'm not gonna feel happy all the time. And
what's so powerful is that as we grow the tools to deal with emotions as they come in, whether it's like grief or stress or anxiety, as these emotions come in, they roll in like a wave, right? Just like a wave. They roll in and they feel overwhelming sometimes, but they naturally will roll back out. If we, if we have the tools to just kind of sit there in the wave in a healthy way, they'll roll back out. And I love what you said so much. I think there is this misconception that we're meant to be happy and joyful and all of these things all the time. And what I've been learning more and more is that it's just so important to be able to experience all of the emotions because we're here. Having a human experience and being a human can be very difficult, and there are definitely high highs with also a lot of challenges and low lows.
Stephanie: It's definitely something to embrace and to really make room for our kids. I think too, of just understanding that and allowing them some space and not putting up an expectation that things are supposed to be perfect all the time. 'cause it's just too much pressure. It's too much pressure for them and it's too much pressure and parenting I think as well, like I think a lot of parents really put a lot of pressure on themselves for their kids to be happy all the time.
And we all know that that's just, , something that isn't really realistic for life. It's something that we all encounter. And part of good parenting is helping your children learn to deal with those various emotions and situations when they come. Not if they come, but when they come.
Devoney: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And I picture as they grow into adults, right, having those emotional skills to be able to handle difficulties because they've been supported in those moments, right? With their parents, ideally.
Stephanie: Yeah. And when it comes to some of the biggest problems and issues across the board, because I know when we talk about mental and emotional health, there's a range of things that that encompasses, and then there's like a scale from the ordinary anxiety I would say that we all experience versus clinical.
Diagnoses for mental or emotional health issues and I don't know if it's different for kids and teens and young adults versus the adult population, but what would you say across the board are the most common issues that you see people facing?
Devoney: I think a few really big ones that I, I can't say statistically and across the board, right, but. Through my experience, what I've been seeing so much of is a lot of avoidance and numbing, right? Whether that's through, we're scrolling on our phones all the time, getting these little dopamine hits. We're avoiding difficult feelings.
When those feelings come up, instead of learning how to deal with them, we then. Pick up our phone, we're doing something else. I think definitely the numbing and avoiding. I think another really big one is loneliness and just feeling a lack of connection, and I feel like I see that one across the board through all ages. Just this desire for people to feel more connected and feel that sense of belonging and. It's hard. It can be, it can be really hard for a number of reasons, but those are a couple of of big pieces. And then I think another really big one that I see a lot of too is just kind of a disconnection. Whether it's feeling disconnected from ourselves or disconnected, like I said, from other people. Um, but just wanting to feel a deeper groundedness in yourself and in the world and in your experience, in your community.
Stephanie: I heard someone say recently that he felt the biggest issue with people or what was most resonating with people was the desire to feel alive. I. And when you talk about avoidance and numbing and this disconnection that immediately made me think of that, that desire to be really here, present, passionate, fully experience, the life that you're living.
And I would love to unpack each of those things a little bit more because I really do think that those are things that many of our listeners are gonna resonate with. And so, avoidance. I know you mentioned avoidance as far as for a person not dealing with their own feelings, but are you seeing that also in an avoidance of confrontation or an avoidance of difficult conversations with other people in their lives?
And if someone finds themselves doing that, you know, what are some steps that they could take to confront in a healthy way versus avoid?
Devoney: Yeah. Such good questions. I think when I picture avoidance, I definitely imagine. Us just kind of putting ourselves in this bubble of I'm gonna, you know, stay where it feels safe and comfy, which could be my social media feeds and scrolling and things like that. But definitely also avoidance of those difficult questions or difficult conversations or, I'm a recovering people pleaser and so a lot of my work has focused around that as well.
And I think that avoidance of. Difficult, honest conversations is huge. Is huge because we wanna lean into the comfort and the safety of the avoidance. I think if you're asking what are, what are some maybe first steps that we could take if we're noticing we're avoiding difficult conversations? Was that your question?
Stephanie: Mm-Hmm. Yes.
Devoney: So avoiding difficult conversations. I think what I would challenge you to ask yourself. Typically when we're avoiding those conversations, we think that we're protecting something With that, we're, we're, we're gaining something by avoiding that conversation, right? We're keeping the status quo. We're not creating a conflict, we're not disturbing something. What I would challenge you to ask yourself would be, what am I actually possibly giving up by avoiding these conversations? Often we do that to gain something. So I would wonder in a week, in two weeks, in three months and six months, if I continue to avoid these conversations or whatever this thing is, maybe it's an itch to like look at a different career or maybe it's in your health, right?
And you're, you're feeling the desire to move towards being more active or eating healthier or whatever that is. But we're avoiding that or pulling away because it feels more comfortable. I would ask where, where does that land you in three months, six months, a year, five years, and letting yourself be really honest with what comes up.
Stephanie: Really good question to ask yourself. And one thing I think with the social media and what you brought up about loneliness, I'm hearing the loneliness. Factor so often these days that people are feeling so lonely. But with all of the scrolling that you mentioned, that's a, a common way for people to avoid and kind of withdraw and numb themselves.
We also have seen statistics that social media is not good for, uh, mental health and self-esteem, especially for teenage girls, and I would say really across the board. And so do people find themselves getting into a deeper and deeper hole of feeling disconnected, lonely, and avoiding. Because they're spending so much time on social media.
Devoney: Yeah, I would say that I don't have, again, don't have the statistical answer to that, but I would say absolutely from what I've seen and even in different seasons of life, things that you notice, I. It's a vicious cycle, right? We, we start to avoid, we start to spend a little more time on our phone, and then it just creates this negative feedback loop where it just continues to reinforce that we start to feel more disconnected. Or maybe there's more comparison the more time we spend on social media, we're comparing ourselves more. We're judging ourselves more. We feel less, less. You know, like we're meeting all these expectations. Then that reinforces, well, I'm not gonna go out to that event. I'm gonna just stay home. I'm not gonna go and try out that workout class.
I don't. Right. It negatively reinforces all of those emotions. Absolutely. I think that's definitely can dig into a deeper hole and is so important that if we notice that's happening, to be able to start pulling back on how much time we're spending on social media and in those areas.
Stephanie: Right, and as much as we're talking about anxiety is normal, a little bit of loneliness is normal. How do you know when your mental and emotional health is? Getting into that danger zone, into the red zone, into a point where you really need to seek out some professional help or counseling. What would be some signs or red flags that you need to take that step?
Devoney: Yeah, so you could ask any therapist this and they may give you different answers. But for me, for me, when people are wondering, should I explore going into therapy? If you're wondering, I just encourage people to try it. I think therapy is such an amazing resource to have. I've been in therapy on and off. Through my twenties and into my thirties, and I can't imagine not having that resource. I would say definitely if there are things in your life that aren't feeling how you wanna feel, or you're having thought processes that don't feel supportive, that right. You have this vision for your life or how you wanna be feeling, or what you wanna be doing, the person that you wanna be. If that's not how you're showing up in your life. Get the support if it's available to you. Like I just, if there's anything that you're feeling you need support with, I say reach out. Of course, if there are thoughts coming up around wanting to harm yourself or harming others, that's an absolute absolute.
Please reach out and find support. , from a licensed mental health provider. There's, you know, resources available and we can put some below. But even if you're not at that point, and I've actually had people tell me, they're like, I'm doing okay. And so I put off going to therapy for such a long time, which I just wanna honor, you know, amazing that you're feeling okay and you know, you're, you're functioning well and things, but if there are other things that you really wanna work at and grow and heal and just to improve and expand, also amazing.
Find a therapist that feels like a good fit. 100%.
Stephanie: Going to therapy or going to counseling is so much more common than it used to be. I think it used to be a little bit more taboo or something that people didn't necessarily wanna talk about, but now, myself included. Almost everybody I know has gone to speak to a counselor, a therapist, at least at some point, either because there was a crisis moment or because they're just going through a difficult transition.
Time is a big one. Or sometimes people have, , trauma or things from their past that they really need to work through at some point. And having friends is awesome, and that's a very necessary part of the process too. But having somebody. That's just a professional ear can be so helpful and I agree with you.
If you have any question about if you should, you probably should. And another thing is that sometimes you won't always click at the very beginning with the first counselor that you meet with, but you can keep trying and meet with some different counselors. I don't know if you can speak a little bit to that process about how do you find a good counselor for you?
Devoney: I am so glad you brought that up because especially when it's someone's first time in therapy. Like just giving yourself full permission, and I always tell this to my new clients. I'm like, if at any point this does not feel like a good fit for you, or my approach isn't working, or you're not vibing with my personality. Totally fine. Like this is a safe space because your therapist ideally is gonna want you to just feel supported and feel like that's a safe space where you can just be yourself, be open, be honest, and so, yeah, you know, whether you, you set up a, an intake with someone, you try it out. I encourage. if if it's kind of like, Hmm, I'm unsure.
Maybe give it a, a couple sessions, but feel free to hop around. I, I feel like it's like dating. It's like dating and finding someone that you connect with personality wise that feels safe, that also you enjoy the approach that they take. And another thing that I always say is there are so many therapists with different personalities, with different literal approaches of how they have studied and how they approach anxiety or trauma or relationships.
And so try something out and if at any point it doesn't feel like a good fit. That is 100%. Okay, and feel free to then venture off and try something else, and hopefully you can have that open dialogue with your therapist and they can even support you in what may be more helpful for you.
Stephanie: Yeah, that's very good. And I know there's so many new techniques, more and more so new schools of thought or study or things like EMDR. Am I saying that right? I. Maybe you can speak to what that is 'cause I can't, but I, I know that's become a more popular therapy method lately.
Devoney: Yeah, I, I actually did EMDR. I'm not trained in it, but I have received it in my own therapy, my own healing work, and I'm not an expert, but they use bilateral stimulation, so stimulating different sides of the brain. To help reprocess trauma is my most general understanding of it. But please go do research and you know, 'cause I'm not trained in that, but that's my understanding and it's incredible.
Definitely an incredible approach.
Track 1: I think that we are learning so much more about the brain and the mind and how they work together, how they influence one another, and there's all these different pieces to the puzzle, and I think that's a lot of what this podcast is about is about. Trying to take all the pieces and let people examine them from different angles because there are things that we can do physically that will really help our mental and emotional health.
It's like you were saying about naming an emotion is so important and giving yourself time to just process through that wave, and that's probably why so often if you just go take a nap. If you sleep on something, you wake up the next day, you feel so much better because you're also giving yourself time to ride through that emotional wave as you physically do some things for self care that are really gonna help you there.
but let's talk also a little bit about spiritual health and how does our faith and our spiritual health interplay with the mental and the emotional health in your opinion.
Devoney: Yeah, I first off, just wanna say I so deeply appreciate. Like the approach that you take with the podcast, with your work? I think having more resources, more places where people can find support and wisdom that integrates all of these pieces, right? Because we are. We are a whole person and we need the physical health and the mental health and the spiritual health, and I just, I appreciate that so much.
I think that's the most absolute incredible way to reach the optimal healing and wellbeing that we're looking for. And on that note. There is actually so much research out there that talks about how people who have a spiritual practice, whatever that means to them, a spiritual practice like resonating with some form of spirituality or Christianity or whatever that is. That the research shows that they have a greater sense of wellbeing, overall, greater health, overall, greater life satisfaction, less likelihood of struggling with addiction. It's fascinating and I think so incredible to acknowledge how important that spiritual piece is to our overall health.
Stephanie: And community is such a big part of that, right? It's being part of a community, what you can go through. When life's ups and downs happen for that support, and I think it's easy these days too, with the way our culture has shifted, that you can even still go to a church or a place of worship, but still be an island.
You can go in and out and you can kind of sit and consume, but it really is up to each person to connect with the other people there, to be willing to share and engage and be vulnerable. I think that can be a little scary for people. Do you think that's even harder now for younger generations than it has been in the past?
Devoney: Yeah, I think that's so difficult. Like even I, with my move, I've been church hopping and trying to find a church home and. Recently found one I think I'm gonna, I think I'm gonna stick with, and immediately I'm like, okay, I'd love to get into a small group. Right? Because that's how you build that connection and that community. But it can be really scary and it can feel really daunting. And even thinking about going to these places alone, being willing to go to these places alone and trying those things out, right? It takes this level of being willing to be uncomfortable and just being willing to sit in that discomfort. But knowing that hopefully. You're gonna find something that feels like a good fit for you and that you're gonna connect and feel that sense of community that we need.
Stephanie: And I think it's the same point as like talking about finding your fit with a counselor is you may join a small group and you might not click with anybody, so maybe you need to join another small group or another team, or just the big thing is to just have that grit and keep going. And another thing that's so great about churches is it doesn't necessarily have to be somebody that's your exact same age that you end up forming a really great relationship with.
You know, there's a lot of older, women that might want to mentor you or just pour into your life more than you realize. And I think we're afraid to ask, but there are so many people who are willing to be a friend to you and be a support to you if you're willing to take that first step and ask.
Devoney: Yeah. That's amazing.
Track 1: So another thing I wanna touch on when it comes to church and faith, I think a lot of times, like one misconception is that. If our faith is strong enough, then we're not going to suffer, or we're not gonna doubt, or we're not gonna have these down times. And sometimes there have been some cliches in Christian culture I think that have not necessarily been helpful for people when it comes to their mental and emotional health.
Can you speak to where you have seen maybe the church not. Necessarily understanding, and I'm not gonna say that it's like vindictive or done for ill will, but maybe just not understanding this mental and emotional health component. And how can we as believers and as the body of Christ better support one another?
If you hear of somebody that's going through challenges in this area.
Devoney: Yeah. I think even just reflecting on my own experience of realizing that I had anxiety, I didn't realize I had anxiety until I was in my mid twenties, and there were so many things that came up around that related to being in church and thinking, well, I must be doing something wrong. I'm not praying the right way, or I'm not hearing God the right way, or I'm not reading my Bible verses enough.
Or like all of those things came up for me and I definitely had to do some work through that to realize that I'm not doing anything wrong. These are, this is just my experience and you know, kind of what I'm going through. I think a really beautiful way to support people would be, I think you already named one.
It's this idea of how we are already de-stigmatizing therapy and realizing how helpful therapy can be. I also believe the idea that we can be amazing spirit led believers and also need therapy, right? I can be a really strong Christian and also struggle with depression or anxiety, or go through a crisis event or a traumatic experience, and I need someone who has gone through years and years of training related to mental health and trauma processing. To be able to help me and my brain and my body move through that. And I think allowing and creating that safety and that openness in our church communities, in our small groups, in, you know, when we're talking, just connecting with other people, just having that feel like a safe thing to share and bring up and be open about of, yeah, I have anxiety or I'm in therapy or. Just starting to have more of those conversations and bringing it up, I think is definitely creating more of that acceptance and openness that needs to be happening.
Stephanie: Yeah, having the open conversations is really important and that takes humility to admit. You're having that bad day or that bad week or season, whatever it might be. And I think another big part of it is letting go of control. And some people will say, oh, I'm a control freak. Or she's a control freak, or he's a control freak.
But I think we need to be honest and say we all wanna have control. Who doesn't wanna have control? You know, I wanna have the life that I wanna have. and so I think that surrendering control is a. Big piece, and again, it's very counter-cultural. It's a big part of our faith. In fact is to surrender control and to be led by the Lord.
But it's really counter-cultural because we have all of these programs and all of these initiatives. It's like, okay, if I just check these boxes, if I take these 10 steps, then I'm gonna turn my life around and I'm gonna be super confident all the time and whatever that may be. but. When we let the Lord lead us and we're willing to open up to other people, those are really key steps for us for our own personal healing. And so I would love to know if somebody is listening right now and they're like, I really do want to prioritize my mental and emotional health. I haven't really thought about it, but this is an area I know that I. Would like to work on and invest in, but I don't really know what that means. Like what are some practical tips
Devoney: Absolutely. So I would say definitely. Creating some form of a mindfulness practice. I think that's a great, a great support to have, and you can find the Insight. Timer app is a free app. The Insight Timer app is a free app and just checking out their top rated. They just have a page where it's just their top rated.
Meditations and practices and things like that, or I've heard that Headspace is really amazing too. But I would say even just starting with a practice like that where you are taking a couple of breaths throughout the day, just pausing, breathing, creating that space. There's so much research that talks about how that impacts our brain and our wellbeing. I would say definitely starting there, I would say finding. Whether it's podcasts or books or communities where people are having conversations around these things and just letting yourself kind of dive in and learn about it. And then I also will share, I talk so much about this on my podcast as well, so feel free to hop over there and listen.
That's something that I talk so much about and. A couple last resources. One of my absolute favorite books of all time is, good Morning, I Love You by Dr. Shauna Shapiro, and it focuses a lot on self-compassion, self-compassion, So love that. And then, okay, one last thing. One last thing would be if you were to, at the end of each day, ask yourself. What are three things that went well today? What are three things that went well today? I think that's a beautiful practice just to start with. That is not mine. That is a positive psychology practice. I didn't create that, but I love that practice so much at the end of each day asking what are three things that went well and then like, why did that go well?
So something that went well today. There was a beautiful, there was a beautiful, you know, rainbow. I saw. Why was that so beautiful? Well, I looked outside and I enjoyed it and I savored it. So asking yourself that question at the end of each day.
Stephanie: That's awesome. Those are really, really great tips and I have a final question that I like to ask guests. And now this hits people differently because I've asked some ladies that are in their forties or fifties. but I would be curious what Would you tell your 25-year-old self, and since you're not very far away from that, it could even be like, if you could go back to your 20-year-old self, what would you tell that girl
Devoney: I would most definitely tell her to stop worrying so much. Worrying about what everyone else is thinking,
or if other people are judging you, or just stop worrying so much about everything and just start enjoying and trying to just enjoy where you're at. Enjoying school and learning and meeting new people and having fun instead of spending so much time. Worrying about what other people are thinking and all of, all of those things that happen for us when we're, when we're younger and struggle with those things,
Stephanie: That's really, really good advice. Well, thank you so much for being with us today, and can you just tell people really quick, again, the name of your podcast and how to connect with you on social or your website?
Yeah, absolutely. So anywhere you listen to podcasts, you can look up free the, and sign well free and well, I'm, I'm there. Our podcast is there. I took a few months off, but starting in March. Up and running with weekly episodes, so I'll be there and then I hang out over on Instagram as well. It's free and well all typed out.
All letters free and well, I'd love to hang out with you there too. Thank you so much for having me, Stephanie.
Thank you so much and I for sure encourage everybody. Go check out Devoney for a lot more resources in this area of mental health and self care. That's so important for all of us. Thanks for listening.
